Maddenation
8 Mile
Karina and I watched 8 Mile the other day. We were curious. Have you seen it? Turns out it’s a new filter placed on the Rocky plot (also known as the Hoosiers plot). In this case, it’s the world of impromptu rap battles, something similar to the payadores here in Uruguay, who are gauchos playing guitar and singing two at a time in a sort of gentleman’s contest. 8 Mile is basically a bad movie, with insufficient character development (Eminem’s friends are cardboard cutouts: there’s the fat jolly guy who wants all the ho’s, and there’s the skinny guy with glasses who wants women to respect themselves, and there’s the ubiquitous slightly retarded white guy friend, and there’s the knowledgable mentor who pushes Eminem to be his best). The only good part of the movie was the rapping battles, but even those were disappointing because while they were supposedly impromptu, you know they were really in the script (unless somebody wants to prove me wrong).
In any case, I can’t recomment the movie, and I wonder what all the hype was about it. Some real reviewers seemed to be sincerely praising it. But that’s what happens, I guess, when there’s money to be made. Even a reviewer knows that if he writes a really catchy praise, it can turn into a tag line, and he’ll be quoted on the posters and the web site and on t.v. And Dad, as for the seven basic plots, one of them is definitely the Rocky plot (whose worst manifestation, by the way, is probably Over the Top).
Patrick • Reviews • 09/11/03 • 12 comments
Comments
Dad • 09/11/03 • 9:49 PM:Admittedly, calling it the “Rocky plot” is great shorthand, but you had to see the movie to know what the plot was. We need to distill Rocky down to its essential character. Is it “underdog wins?” Or is it, “Underdog gets lucky break and almost blows it, but comes back to earn respect by almost winning?”
Another question: is Karate Kid the same plot as Rocky? Clearly, Over The Top is. Is Hoosiers different because instead of “boy” you have “team”? What other movies are basically the same plot as Rocky?
Then there’s boy meets girl and all those variations. Boy/Girl meets alien is another one (sci fi). How about the crime capers, where they either get caught or don’t? Biography may fit in there, but maybe this life story is just “boy meets challenge, boy meets girl, etc.”
Now I’m wondering if there really are seven different plots. Help me out here.
Kathleen • 09/14/03 • 4:21 PM:I hear ya, Pat. However, I wonder if you are able to simply enjoy things without critiquing them. I don’t mean that as an insult; a genuine question. I liked the movie because I really got pumped up at the end with the rap battle. I remember wondering when it was going to get good, and when it finally did, I was excited. I think the end is, of course, a fantasy, but it was great. Stuff like that is worthy just because, if you allow it, it can inspire you. If you’re in the right state of mind, something like this (or ANYTHING for that matter) can help you see things in your own life more clearly, inspire you, or whatever. How many people did 8 Mile inspire? Doubtful it affected many intellectuals, but perhaps others from other walks of life. Just like Rocky.
AJ • 09/17/03 • 6:21 PM:I’m fairly certain the rap battles were indeed improvised. We had the DVD at our apartment for a while because my old roomate bought like 20 DVD’s while in China for what ended up being about 87 cents each. God bless the exchange rate when vacationing in China I guess. It was pretty funny because some of the DVDs weren’t released in America yet and whoever’s job it was to translate the covers to English must’ve been dyslexic. For instance, I’m pretty sure Toby Maguire was the star of Spiderman not Dan Ackroyd, but if one were to go by the DVD cover we would see that it was Dan Ackroyd. Well, good for him; he looked pretty agile for his age.
The DVD covers get pretty funny but I, of course, am already way off the point. So, there’s a special feature on the DVD that covers the making of the movie. There was some kind of audition and then the rap battles were all performed by rappers who made it. Eminem mostly just lip-synced his lines because he had begun losing his voice during shooting of the movie or he had a cold or something. As you’ll see on the DVD, however, a couple of times Eminem decided he was sick of just standing there getting ripped on so he went right into putting the battler in his place. He was actually unbelievabley awesome at it. Anyway, I’m sure only the best of the battles shot were included in the movie. If you want a movie that isn’t edited I’m not sure how to help you.
I don’t think the movie was that great either. Maybe I was hoping it would be a little more true to Eminem’s life or something instead of the sort of generic battle-against-insurmountable-odds, get-your-but-kicked-for-a-while-then-come-back-on-top-movie. (a.k.a. Rocky plot?)
Yes, Karate Kid falls in this catagory. Stephen Seagal movies don’t though. He never even gets hit by the bad-guys half the time and that’s rad, gnarly, and awesome bro - Right on! (That’s just to prove that I’m not as anti-Cali-lingo as Kathleen)
My roommate Ryan loved the movie. Of course, he watches more MTV and ‘reality TV’ than I would deem healthy for a 13 year old so his taste might be different than yours.
On another topic, is there any ‘reality’ associated with ‘reality TV’?
That’s 2 (two) total posted comments for me now. I’m way ahead of Liz.
Have a super day.
Dan • 09/17/03 • 6:51 PM:this is reality weblogging.
for those of you who don’t realize this, AJ is a moron who apparently feels free to comment on our stuff and is on a first-name basis with our mother. he’s also my roommate at NJIT from sophomore year and kathleen’s current roommate. how the heck did that happen?
i didn’t know that “toby maguire” spelled backwards is “dan ackroyd”. interesting.
there’s no way in hell those battles are straight-up improv. maybe they didn’t write the stuff down, but tons of takes and redos must have been done. i’m sure once you’re been doing improv like that for a while you get very good at it, but come on, that’s too good. arsenio (11) and his 13 year old brother do improv rapping too, and they’re surprisingly awesome at it, even at a young age. so i can believe that those guys are up there busting crazy freestyle stuff, but i would be that they built to the final battle lyrics. who knows, though. maybe i’ll watch the dvd extras.
AJ, you live with a 13 year old?
you can have your beefs with eminem, but the fact is, he’s incredibly talented at his musical genre.
Kathleen • 09/17/03 • 7:04 PM:So, Dan, are you saying that you like Eminem?
AJ • 09/18/03 • 12:15 AM:Thanks for the intro Dan!
Is a moron a person who thinks dyslexic people don’t read backwards? I did about 2.111 seconds of research (or however long it takes to type dictionary.com dyslexia) and found a link that might help correct your misunderstanding of the dyslexia disorder: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=dyslexia
Clearly mixing different DVD information into one paragraph about a single other movie is somehow due to confusion. I’m suggesting that someone took words and threw them together seeing the words as individual patterns, but not worrying or noticing they were related to each other. Perhaps this isn’t quite the typical dyslexia symptom, but I thought my suggestion of this disorder was close enough to relay the idea of what was going on without being as specific about it as I am (unsuccessfully) trying to be now. I’m sure you would have found a better way to describe it, probably using the word “stuff” somehow.
Also, I’m not sure how mentioning that 11 year olds that you tutored can freestyle helps prove your point that “there’s no way in hell those battles are straight-up improv.” Most of those people in the movie rap for a living, which I’m guessing the 11 year olds you know don’t. Of course, you’ve already explained that I’m not that clever ( http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=moron )
so maybe I’ll never understand. Then again the realization that I might not be able to understand might prove that I understand more than I think I don’t. Or the other way around. Or vice versa. I think I’m getting dyslexic.
I’m not sure why I’m explaining this, but it is a movie and is obviously not a film of real events recorded in succession. Maybe, you’re arguing that there is no such thing as rap battles? I think you would need to have a certain amount of hands on experience to make such a bold statement on a culture you don’t live in. I doubt any of us commenting have this required experience despite the acclaimed diversity at Notre Dame. (Please note reference to a previous maddenation topic)
Which reminds me: the reference to Liz’s comments (or lack therof) is from David’s comment after my first replying to your internet cafe post. The reference to Cali lingo is a reference to something Kat wrote somewhere. I like to reference things I think the people who read what I write will get. I guess you didn’t.
Since you’re trying to correct me you’ve started a correction war - sort of like the exaggeration war. I’m sure you’ll be looking for spelling mistakes soon.
No, I don’t live with a 13 year old. ?
I think one can be called a talented musician in a certain genre, but not at a genre.
The site is a forum. I feel free to comment because the site’s design encourages me to do so. The site also intrigues me, so I read it’s posts periodically.
So there. :P
Oh, yeah - Three for me.
I’m not a jerk, I swear.
Kathleen • 09/18/03 • 12:27 AM:Go AJ!
Dad • 09/18/03 • 2:49 PM:Just want to make sure that everyone realizes that the opinions expressed on this weblog do not necessarily represent those of the sponsor, whoever that is.
Dan • 09/19/03 • 12:21 PM:i think you’re thinking of the “mixing actors from different movies” syndrome. dyslexia is a written comprehension disorder, not a memory disorder, or other stuff. i’d accept dyslexia as the reason for the dvd mess-up if the person typed “dan akroyd” but meant “toby maguire”.
as a witness to rap duels among teenagers, i’d say that makes me more of an expert on the subject than anyone who has participated in this forum. as a mentor to the teenagers who have participated in the duels, my judgment and knowledge of these children leads me to believe that they won’t approach the ability of the duelers in 8 mile. of course, this is my limited scope, and out of millions of amateur rappers in the US, only a handful will be as good as the ones in the movie. this said, i still do not buy that the rappers in the movie are freestyling 100%. mentioning 11 year olds in my previous statement was not meant to strengthen my stance, but to give you, the reader, my view as a peripheral bystander to this stuff.
did aj really call my sister “kat”? what is UP with that?
ok, eminem is incredibly talented at rapping. or in rapping.
p.s. shaq has a rap album.
Dan • 11/14/03 • 3:06 PM:Speaking of dyslexia and typography, here’s a typeface that aims to help dyslexic readers. It focuses on differences between the rounded characters. Well, you can read about it here.
Kathleen • 11/20/03 • 1:46 AM:Just to clarify to all of y’all out there, dyslexia is a decoding or word reading disability, not a comprehension problem. Dyslexics see the letters of words in mixed up order, backwards, or otherwise messed up. Once they get the info, they should be able to understand it just fine. >:)
Patrick • 11/20/03 • 8:08 AM:Whoa, Kath, what’s with that malevolent smiley? I wanted to answer a question you had way up there in the comments about if I am able to simply enjoy things without critiquing them. The answer is yes and no. Yes because there are movies that I know aren’t intellectually challenging or unique in any meaningful way, but I still enjoy them (some of them). See my post on Remember the Titans if you want evidence. At the same time, my mind is always critiquing, which is sometimes a nuisance. It’s almost like the curse of eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Once you’ve taken that bite, there’s no going back to the naked, carefree days of yore. You’re better off for it, because you can discern, give meaning to, the things you encounter, but, as Thomas Wolfe said, “You can’t go home again.”
And as for those movie rap battles being really improvised: maybe. But you’d have a hard time convincing me that that improvisation is the same as real improvisation. In a movie you can always get a new take. In real life, rap improvisation is often a matter of life and death.
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