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Patrick • 05/24/04 • 3:35 PM:

The biggest problem with voting solely on this issue is you get four more years of the biggest idiot ever to be elected a world leader. Don’t get me wrong, there may have been bigger idiots raised up through royal lineage or deceipt or sheer fighting prowess. But I seriously doubt there’s any bigger one elected.

I hate politics, and I hate the way so many of our politicians comport themselves. I struggle with some issues that define our political parties. One take on abortion is that its legality does not actively kill unborn children, it simply allows people to kill them without punishment here on earth. That is tragic. Yet is it not also tragic that other policies actively kill people? And is it not tragic that some of these policies are designed simply to fill somebody’s pockets with the green? I’m not a psychotic liberal by any means, but, having lived abroad, I have witnessed some small part of the evil that happens outside our country’s borders so we can be comfortable here. Y’know?

Dad • 05/24/04 • 9:56 PM:

Even I have some problems with the trucks I occasionally drive. Nonetheless, I do it because the purpose of the “shocking images” is to get people talking about the unborn baby as an entity separate from the mother. Patrick, you make a good point about the legality of abortion not actually causing abortions (similar to “guns don’t kill people, people kill people”). However, this is exactly the point of most pro-choice politicians, who are personally against it, but defend the “reproductive” rights of women. In fact, I don’t care that much about the abortion law. My ideal result would be a society where the ethics of it’s citizens made the law irrelevant.

Certainly other policies, such as the Iraqi war, result is death, but at least an argument can be made (albeit not a good one) that war deaths are in some ways justified by the noble ends being pursued. Also, while “innocent bystanders” are often killed in the course of achieving military objectives, few would argue that these people are as innocent as a babe in the womb. Middle east conflicts are often characterized by the use of hospitals and mosques and schools as “shields” for terrorists. Would that we could all have a reverence for life that extends from the unborn to the old and infirm, but clearly our world is not there.

Patrick’s final point is really the most important and thorny one for us to ponder. What is done in our name in far off places everyday to preserve our profligate lifestyle? Maybe our real sin is our failure look deeper into the effects of our global policies to see what harm they do.

David • 05/25/04 • 12:13 PM:

I certainly didn’t mean to imply that voting for Bush was a good idea. I think he’s lousy, but I don’t think he’s the biggest idiot ever - I don’t have proof, I just can’t imagine he is. Part of me still thinks part of his actions are well-intentioned (although that is in no way an excuse). Pat, you’re absolutely right about ‘actively’ killing vs. a law that doesn’t punish it. And Bush of course played a role in hundreds (150?) of killings under Texas Capital Punishment law.

I agree that Pat’s last point is profound and tough. I heard that Britain recently released a number estimate of innocent deaths in Iraq - the number was gross and made me feel sick - 10,000. There are many factors tying into the number and the estimation process (Iraqi soldiers dressing like civilians and hiding in schools). Anyway you look at it, it’s very, very sad.

Patrick • 05/25/04 • 12:41 PM:

This is exactly the point of most pro-choice politicians, who are personally against it, but defend the “reproductive” rights of women. In fact, I don’t care that much about the abortion law. My ideal result would be a society where the ethics of its citizens made the law irrelevant.

I don’t see abortion as a reproductive rights issue, I see it as murder, and its legality is a barometer of our society’s priorities. But I do understand that unwanted children overwhelmingly end up with their mothers, not their fathers. This is so out of hand that there’s no non-fascistic way of getting it under control. In my madder moments, I consider castrating men who father unwanted children, or gleaning 90% of their paychecks (and forcing them to work), or converting North Dakota into a penal colony for irresponsible parents. They could live there in relative peace, but they couldn’t leave, and they’d have to see up front the consequences of their poor decisions. No one would come to save them from themselves or to clean up the messes they made.

Just because I can see the validity of some arguments adopted by the staunchly “pro-choice” does not mean I agree with their dogma. I think this issue has polarized people’s thoughts too much, so that we stop thinking and blindly follow a predetermined set of arguments.

By the way, I’m not just talking about Iraq. I’m talking about a consistent policy of intervention and protectionism that rides on the backs of some of the savviest s.o.b.s ever to don a tie and jacket.

As for achieving a society whose morals make legal access to abortion irrelevant, I can’t imagine ever getting back there. What irks me most, though, is that the most rabid proponents of abortion are also those who claim to be so zen-tolerant of everything. Their principal aim, though they’ll never admit it, is to be free of guilt or accountability for their actions. They want to smoke dope and make love without any negative consequences. They rail against the world they live in because it provides effects from causes, punishments for crimes. The other people in their lives are not props for their use and enjoyment. What goes around comes around. That which ye sow, so shall ye reap. Everything is connected.

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